Comments on: The Death of Youth Ministry (pt 2) | The Church Doesn’t Take it Seriously

By: Brian K

Brian K — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:16:06 +0000

Very interesting. Thanks for this post and its companion. Your "the little things" section is brutally honest…but true!

By: adam lehman

adam lehman — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:28:39 +0000

@Vince

Wow. Came across this article via StumbleUpon. As a guy who is happy to be a youth pastor right now, I am so so so so often reminded that if a handful of people in the church spent a few hours a week, my job wouldn't be needed.

Along with the reasons you stated (key families have high school students), I think churches hire youth pastors because they can't make the ministry successful because no one wants to do it.

Also, theologically speaking, i think a bi-vocational model would lead to a much more active, healthy congregation as well as add to long term sustainability.

By: Vince

Vince — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:10:37 +0000

@cassy good thoughts. True there is not a perfect solution. you hit it on the head when you mentioned the fact that most people come to faith when they are young.

in that fact, i see most churches ignoring it and tailoring 80 percent of their resources and time to adults.

By: Cassy

Cassy — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:56:58 +0000

I’m not sure I agree that because a new Pastor should be hired every 100-150 people, the same should happen in a youth ministry. Most Pastors have elders, worship leaders, children’s and youth ministers, deacons, trustees, secretaries (financial and otherwise), building managers, etc. to help with the ministry. Youth Pastors generally don’t. A youth pastor may be responsible for the budget, plans, wisdom, worship, prayer, and side ministries of youth group. All this plus taking care of the spiritual needs of 100 youth seems impractical. In his book “Habits of Highly Effective Churches,” Barna states on pages 119-120, “Our research shows that a majority of people who accept Christ as their Savior do so before the age of 18—nearly two out of three believers. One of the implications of this reality, by the way, is that the youth pastor is not merely a caretaker or Bible teacher but is the church’s primary evangelist. Think about that when you search for your next youth pastor!” Also, studies show that youth ministers today only last an average of 18 months in the ministry. This in itself shows that much needed youth ministers aren’t supported in the church like they should be, and adding more youth per minister doesn’t help the problem.

By: The Death of Youth Ministry (pt 3) | Parents Don’t Take Youth Ministry Seriously at nikao | a collective

Wed, 13 Aug 2008 19:25:45 +0000

[...] the series :: intro :: the church doesn’t take youth ministry seriously Filed under death of youth ministry | Subscribe | What is [...]

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:15:50 +0000

Vince, I think you made some good points in regards to evaluating if a church needs another staff person or not, and if a church takes youth ministry seriously.

I would add to the list of, ‘how else the church does not take youth ministry seriously,’expectations. We have, generally speaking, bought into the “their young, they can do something when they get older” mentality.

I am serving in a unique situation myself (volunteer Youth Pastor of a Mission, roughly 75-80 people and growing). One of our challenges, in my opinion, is to be taken seriously from our “Mother” church and the local association. They are supporting, but it’s hard not to feel like the little “side kick,” and who gets thrown all the left over crumbs (Oh look how cute they are over their being the little mission).

By: Vince

Vince — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:35:08 +0000

@mike math is not my strong suit for sure. Yeah, I am talking in ideals. I do think the days of full time support role pastors is over too. I would add that there are a whole lot of churches that won’t license their youth worker to get them the housing allowance.

What churches should do is vote to license the youth pastor in their board meeting until he can jump through all the denominational hoops.

By: Mike

Mike — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:25:04 +0000

Not to burst the mathematical bubble here Vince, but I have to add a couple of cents worth to your figuring. I have done this with a number of pastors lately who figure they are getting the short end of the stick in terms of wages. First, pastoral wages are “deflated” as to actual value on two accounts. First, because pastors can deduct housing allowance, which in the case of pastors in SoCal, means almost all of that average salary you quoted, then the salary itself is worth 15% more than its base. On top of that, for pastors who have opted out of Social Security, that is another 15%. Pastors have a potential of 25-30% more take home pay than the average person making that much.

Because of that the house a pastor can afford usually is consider 4 times what they make. I know, I know. There isn’t anything there for $160,000 worth living in either, but it is closer. Also, the average salary for the west includes rural communities and tiny churches of less than 100. So I would think the realistic salary of a youth pastor in the west in an urban setting would be $50-60 K.

More math: It now takes almost 250 members to support a pastor in an urban setting. And that is if they don’t have a building payment. I really think the day of full-time pastoral staff members is waning. Most churches in urban settings will have one or two full-time staff with many part-time staff raised up from within the church. IMO.

By: Vince Marotte

Vince Marotte — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:55:09 +0000

The Death of Youth Ministry pt2 is up. http://tinyurl.com/5vz6l9